RachelMills ([info]rachelmills) wrote,
@ 2006-01-18 23:02:00
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Misunderstandings of Religion and Socialism...

I've been reading Hugh M. Hefner's 345 page editorial from 1962 on his empire's philosophy and came across this excerpt:


"If what many of us profess to believe religiously were actually applied to American social, political and economic life, we would have a system more nearly socialist than capitalist.


I have to disagree, and this is partly the reason Gnosticism interests me so.  Gnosticism, to me, looks at the boiled-down teachings of Jesus, without the input of the power hungry that have muddied the message througout history.  


If one looks on the reported actions and sayings of Jesus in the gospels, I don't think you could at all argue that a follower of His could be Socialist, at least not politically.  Yet I've heard the claim Hefner makes over and over, almost as a slight against Christianity, perhaps especially against the notoriously Republican Religious Right.  "If you are so Christian, why are you so Capitalist?"  As if to be a Capitalist is to not care about one's fellow man.  Rather, they should vote Democrat.  It's the religious right thing to do. 


On the contrary, to be Capitalist, you must ESPECIALLY care about your fellow man.  If you don't, your fellow man will not reward you by buying what you're selling.  Then how can you employ others of your fellow man to make more widgets to sell, in turn allowing them to support a family and prosper?  No.  Success just equals greed plus adequately guaging the desires of your fellow man.  A lovely combination of self-interest and servanthood.


So what is Socialism and what did Jesus teach?  Socialism is "to each according to his need, from each according to his ability" by decree of an all-powerful state.  In other words, do what you can for the collective and the collective will give you what you need to survive.

Problem is, the individual underestimates what they should give to the collective, and the collective underestimates what the individual should get.  Result: poverty for all, productivity for none. 

Bigger problem: the giving to the collective is done at gun point and threat of imprisonment and force. This "compassionate" form of government, and its sister Communism is responsible for more misery, imprisonment and democide than any other. You put Jesus right in the middle of this nasty little mess and you got yourself an excellent straw man.

What did Jesus teach, then? Giving? Yes. Force? Imprisonment? Jack-booted-ness? No, emphatically. In fact, Jesus was not at all concerned with the power of the state, which was the major reasons the Jews did not accept Him as their Messiah. He was not what they were looking for. They are still looking for a great political leader who will overthrow their enemies, but that's another subject. Jesus taught compassion and concern, empathy for your fellow man, but through free-will. Jesus asked a lot from a lot of people, but it was always their decision. It is only through your own volition that a good deed has spiritual value. Man looks at the outside, but God looks on the heart. The Pharisees praying openly and loudly on the streets did not impress Jesus for this reason. The nearly unnoticed widow's mite did.

Even the Virtuous Woman of Proverbs was so obviously a Capitalist for the good of her family (though a lot of modern devotionals turn her into a housewife who fastidiously cleans all day). She was a business woman who earned money and made investments for the security of her family and employees. She also gave to charity of her own free will and excess. Her hard work enabled her to give to others.

Consider Proverbs 31:
10 [c] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

This is the Bible presenting an ideal. Is she a Capitalist? Or is she a Socialist waiting for a hand-out and wondering when its her turn in the gulag? She is bright, optimistic, clever and industrious. She is also compassionate, light-hearted, and loving. She loves life and makes the most of it. Is she the suppressed 1950's housewife waiting at home for her man to provide everything while she waits obediantly? (desperately) No.

Ok, so this is not about woman's place in society and the Bible, but the point is people misconstrue the Bible's actual teaching with what religious people SAY it teaches. The Bible does not teach Communism/Socialism, it teaches free-will and individualism. Charity, in the Biblical sense, does not extend to extracting it from others at gunpoint or government coercion. It might involve instead, rational discussion to convince your fellow man to be charitable, (findraising) but the use of force is patently un-Christian, and so is Communism/Socialism.

That's right, kiddies. Jesus was a Libertarian.



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ciggieposeur
2006-01-19 06:52 am UTC (link)
I think people are generally referring to Acts, the Beatitudes, the Year of Jubilee, and several very direct passages from the gospels.

Mark 10:17-23 :


As he was going out into the way, one ran to him, knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one— God. You know the commandments: 'Do not murder,' 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not give false testimony,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and mother.'"

He said to him, "Teacher, I have observed all these things from my youth."

Jesus looking at him loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me, taking up the cross."

But his face fell at that saying, and he went away sorrowful, for he was one who had great possessions. Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples, "How difficult it is for those who have riches to enter into the Kingdom of God!"

The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus answered again, "Children, how hard is it for those who trust in riches to enter into the Kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through a (or, the) needle's eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."


(This is also in Matthew 19:16-25.) Or they may be referring to Luke 10:25-37, or Matthew 25:31-46 (quoting only 41-45):


Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.'

"Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?'

"Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.'"


Of course, the real question is, "What does this have to do with socio-economic systems?"

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[info]rachelmills
2006-01-19 07:33 am UTC (link)
I know where they get the ideas, but they also don't seem to pick up on the fact that Jesus asked and the people made a choice. At no point did Jesus lobby the government and try to FORCE people to give away all their stuff to help the poor. That's a very critical point - forcing someone to give their stuff away is also known as theft, which Jesus was not a fan of. Asking nicely is called fundraising.

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ciggieposeur
2006-01-19 08:10 am UTC (link)
That's a very critical point - forcing someone to give their stuff away is also known as theft, which Jesus was not a fan of. Asking nicely is called fundraising.

Actually it's more complex than that. Jesus was asking on a very fundamental level for his followers to put their faith in God, and the parable of the good rich man is meant to illustrate that even though the man was a generally good guy he wasn't willing to forego all of his security and put his life in God's hands. Most parables are very consistent when read at that level: "let God lead your life".

The more interesting question is "is the parable meant to be true at a more practical level?" Did Jesus really mean that his followers should shelter the poor, or did he "only" mean that they should think outside the box?

Finally, bear in mind that Jesus was speaking directly from a position of supernatural authority. Jesus claiming that God abhorred materialism meant then what Pat Robertson means now when Robertson claims abortion is an abomination: followers are expected to respect that as a much more serious law than the temporary (and corruptible) laws of the state. Going to Hell spoken from the Son of God is a more serious threat than execution spoken from the local governor.

I think it's fair to say regardless of these questions that Jesus would have condemned both USSR-style communism (with its direct state repression/murder) and USA-style capitalism (with its exported/outsourced repression/murder).

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[info]rachelmills
2006-01-19 08:16 am UTC (link)
I agree completely with the Pat Robertson/abortion comment, which is why it pisses me off when they try to make their higher law everyone's law. It's almost an insult to God giving people free will.

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ciggieposeur
2006-01-19 02:22 pm UTC (link)
They are instructions instead to let go of this world, not far from the Buddhist belief that all attachment is suffering.

I don't think that's an accurate reading of the gospels. I think Jesus wanted his followers to be transformed in a way that would be immediately visible to anyone, and which would indeed change the world. Why else the parable of the covered lamp, or the Great Commission, or turning out the money changers in the temple (which was a political act)? The epistles are also rather consistent in their interpretation: Jesus had arrived and entire world was now a different place, on a physical level just as much as a spiritual one. That was the whole point of physical resurrection: God has shown direct concrete power beyond what any government can do.

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[info]emagill
2006-01-19 09:34 am UTC (link)
I intend to repost this for others to read. Fantastic work.

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[info]bashow
2006-01-19 08:21 pm UTC (link)
I believe speaking of liberty from a Biblical and Christian viewpoint is the most important and only truly fruitfull work a libertarian can do, and am happy by your post. When Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor, isn't the rich man described as a rich young ruler? Meaning he got rich off taxing the people, and he was not a capitalist earning his riches in the free market. When Jesus talked about the rich, I think most people then would have thought of the government officials. Also, Romans 13, I believe, is completely anti-state, contrary to what most believe it to mean. It calls for the ordained of God to govern society. How can we know who has been ordained by God to do anything unless through their demontratable superiour ability in the competitive market place? Was the Soviet state that produced shoes the ordained to produce shoes? I say not. The ordained then were not allowed to produce with the skills God had endowed them with. Likewise, only through a market of defense and judicial services can, through their supperior judgement and impeccable character, the ordained spoke of in Romans 13 be known. They obtain their position through voluntary recognition, not force. It is a call for the natural aristocracy to rule, not the conquerors or democratically elected.

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[info]darkknightradic
2006-01-28 08:52 pm UTC (link)
The Bible does not teach Communism/Socialism, it teaches free-will and individualism. Charity, in the Biblical sense, does not extend to extracting it from others at gunpoint or government coercion. It might involve instead, rational discussion to convince your fellow man to be charitable, (findraising) but the use of force is patently un-Christian, and so is Communism/Socialism.

That's right, kiddies. Jesus was a Libertarian.


This is so true in so many ways, and which is why I was (and still am) so pissed off at the new Pope's comment, during his homily overy Pope John Paul's funeral none-the-less, that radical individualism needs to be fought against. Ugh.

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Christianity and Socialism
(Anonymous)
2006-05-06 07:33 am UTC (link)
It was refreshing to see that I am not alone in my views. Please forgive me if this is long.

The two class society we have is the ENTITLED vs the OBLIGATED. Most of us know where we land.

While the Entitled have the full force of the law behind them, the Obligated have no voice. If we speak up, we are treated as 'right wing extremists', not worthy of a voice.

I recently emailed the following to a Fox Commentator and his too many references to the question "Am I my brother's keeper?"

"As a Christian, I cannot find the answer to the question, "Am I my Brother's Keeper?" in the Bible. When Cain asked God this question, God NEVER answered the question! God cursed Cain for the MURDER of his brother, not for failing to 'keep' him.

As the Ten Commandmants were written AFTER Cain slew Abel, if this question was meant to be specificaly answered, would it not have been answered there?

"Thou shall be your brother's keeper"--Commandment 11. It is not there.

"Am I my brother's keeper?" is the third of the most FUNDAMENTAL RELIGIOUS questions in any religion.
1. Who Made Me? (Who do I thank for my existence?)
2. Why and I here? (What is the purpose of my existence?)
3. Am I my brother's keeper? (What is my relationship to others?)

It is our religious faith and personal conscience that answers these questions. It is our relationship to God that guides us through the decision making of our life. THIS IS GOD's domain.

"Give us this day our daily bread."

When Jesus taught this, the object of his prayers were to God. Jesus was not praying to the government OR any welfare system. Jesus was not praying to the head of the Democratic or Republican party. In no way did he ever imply that Christians should "render unto Ceasar that which is God's".

The minute our 'daily bread' becomes the function of a Government it becomes political. The minute the Government REPLACES God as the object of worship (Give us this day...) we have a STATE RELIGION which is answering FOR US fundamental religious questions.

Not one tax dollar compelled out of our pockets in order to eliminate poverty will get us into heaven. Again, this perversion REPLACES our personal relationship and honor of God with the Government (Ceasar) as an object of worship.

.....Matthew 26, v.11, Mark 14, v.7, John 12, v. 8: Jesus states unequivically that we will ALWAYS have the poor among us.

Today, our 'holy leaders' have stated a 'Christian' goal of eliminating poverty. These people, in their arrogance of holiness, seek to IMPROVE on God. What is written in the Bible is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Again, they seek to REPLACE God to gain personal political power through the democratic process of voting away the ownership of what one earns.

The Causes of poverty are many:
1. Personal decisions which can affect the second and third generation. (i.e. addictions and personal self-indulgence)
2. Government Injustice which can affect the second and third generation.(i.e. slavery)
3. Government interference in our personal lives and livelihood--a government which directly legistlates AGAINST the parable of the talents. (The covetous nature of socialism)
4. Government deciding and legislating the morality of 'shoulds and oughts', creating a two class society of the Entitled and the Obligated. Does anyone have a RIGHT to be kept by another? (i.e. slavery)

True Freedom in conjuction with true justice (not the current legal process) and a personal moral code that guides free enterprise are the ONLY ways to escape poverty.

Giving money, through political means, to the very political people who cause the poverty WILL NOT WORK."

Clover

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